I liked your piece. It was well thought out. As a conservative Catholic, I know I have more in common with conservative Protestants than some of the wacky ideas coming out of the more Liberal/Progressive wings of the faith. However, I really don’t want to live in a society where one branch of the Christian family is government endorsed and the others aren’t. I don’t want government favoring any religion over another - period.
Nationalism is a very specific term in the political science world and it has nothing to do with religion, so I cringe every time I hear it or see people writing about Christian nationalism as of it’s really a thing. Nationalism scares a lot of people because you are talking about cultures maintaining specific borders and people being grouped around those specific cultures. Christianity scares people because they’ve seen the worst excesses of it due to Christians not being actually Christian, but using the label to be intolerant and unloving. But those two things together and you get a great boogeyman in some circles.
The problem is that for Protestant Christian nationalism to be a thing, the founders would have had to kick out all the Catholics and Jews who showed up with states were forming, ala Maryland. That ship has long passed. It’s a myth that the US would be able to back to the glory days because the glory days wasn’t exactly pure Protestantism. The only reason why Protestantism was dominant was because they had numbers- which is why Nativism cropped up in the 1800’s. Those immigrants were mostly from Catholic countries.
As a conservative Christian, I mourn how much our society has degraded in my lifetime. And I’m in my mid-40’s, so it’s not like I’m speaking as a Boomer. I want Christians and our values to be respected as a valid viewpoint in the public square and I want my government to secure our borders and have smart immigration policy because new citizens need time to assimilate into our culture. I like our unique American culture and believe that countries should have and maintain their borders. But I don’t recognize wanting these things as being a Christian nationalist. I see it as being a Christian citizen who wants reasonable government policy, so my country doesn’t fall a part. I don’t see forcing others to accept a (conservative) Christian worldview just because it’s government policy as a good strategy for the future.
Honestly, I see the Left as blowing the numbers of people who want this out of proportion. It’s so media driven. A lot of us vote Republicans simply because the Dems come off as hostile to Christians who don’t buy into their ideas, and on bad days, they seem to just actively hate religious people. That’s not a good look either. There really isn’t a lot of love for the GOP in a lot of circles and if the Left wasn’t insane on cultural stuff, I could seriously consider voting for them. But I just can’t at this point.
I’m more worried about living in a society where people are hostile towards religion than I am people who are over zealous about their religion. I can always pull out my ‘I know Jesus Christ is my personal Lord and savior’ card and tell them what’s what. As a Former Baptist, I was equipped and trained in that language. So I can talk the talk. However, I really don’t understand the language of those who see Christian nationalists around every corner and seek to minimize their influence- when the numbers of those actually wanting that are really super low and have always been a minority in the greater Christian world. The Left hears ‘I want to speak about my faith and values and have it be considered a legit point of view’ as ‘these wackos are the equivalent of the Taliban and they must be stopped at all costs’ and there’s no consideration that there’s a lot of middle ground in that conversation.
For a lot of people, it’s really just about wanting to be respected for who they are and not feel like they have to censor every thought they have in their brain just because they don’t support the current thing.
Christian nationalism seems to be another word for boogeyman and way of othering people who disagree with all the increased secularism in our society. Secularism isn’t all it’s made out to be either and we need to have honest conversations about that.
If I were on any social media I would share this far and wide. But alas, I am not. So know that this post being read widely is the desire of my heart! Wonderful work Shawn.
One thing that really resonates with me in your article is that isn’t it interesting that in the country that has for the most part embraced separation of church and state, Christian is the most common religious affiliation.
Thanks for this article Shawn. In so many ways I agree wholeheartedly with what you wrote.
Regarding "the weight of history" being on the side of those who want to enforce some sort of religious observance in the public sphere, if we go back a few hundred years from Augustine and the church fathers we find Jesus' own statement "give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's", an apparent statement about the separation of church and state, which seems to trump any other statement made by any other Christian theologian (Jesus being far more authorative than any and all Christians).
The idea of setting up a recognised religion in the public sphere also seems the opposite of the church of the Apostolic era, when the church ultimately thrived inspite of (or may because of?) persecution by the state.
I liked your piece. It was well thought out. As a conservative Catholic, I know I have more in common with conservative Protestants than some of the wacky ideas coming out of the more Liberal/Progressive wings of the faith. However, I really don’t want to live in a society where one branch of the Christian family is government endorsed and the others aren’t. I don’t want government favoring any religion over another - period.
Nationalism is a very specific term in the political science world and it has nothing to do with religion, so I cringe every time I hear it or see people writing about Christian nationalism as of it’s really a thing. Nationalism scares a lot of people because you are talking about cultures maintaining specific borders and people being grouped around those specific cultures. Christianity scares people because they’ve seen the worst excesses of it due to Christians not being actually Christian, but using the label to be intolerant and unloving. But those two things together and you get a great boogeyman in some circles.
The problem is that for Protestant Christian nationalism to be a thing, the founders would have had to kick out all the Catholics and Jews who showed up with states were forming, ala Maryland. That ship has long passed. It’s a myth that the US would be able to back to the glory days because the glory days wasn’t exactly pure Protestantism. The only reason why Protestantism was dominant was because they had numbers- which is why Nativism cropped up in the 1800’s. Those immigrants were mostly from Catholic countries.
As a conservative Christian, I mourn how much our society has degraded in my lifetime. And I’m in my mid-40’s, so it’s not like I’m speaking as a Boomer. I want Christians and our values to be respected as a valid viewpoint in the public square and I want my government to secure our borders and have smart immigration policy because new citizens need time to assimilate into our culture. I like our unique American culture and believe that countries should have and maintain their borders. But I don’t recognize wanting these things as being a Christian nationalist. I see it as being a Christian citizen who wants reasonable government policy, so my country doesn’t fall a part. I don’t see forcing others to accept a (conservative) Christian worldview just because it’s government policy as a good strategy for the future.
Honestly, I see the Left as blowing the numbers of people who want this out of proportion. It’s so media driven. A lot of us vote Republicans simply because the Dems come off as hostile to Christians who don’t buy into their ideas, and on bad days, they seem to just actively hate religious people. That’s not a good look either. There really isn’t a lot of love for the GOP in a lot of circles and if the Left wasn’t insane on cultural stuff, I could seriously consider voting for them. But I just can’t at this point.
I’m more worried about living in a society where people are hostile towards religion than I am people who are over zealous about their religion. I can always pull out my ‘I know Jesus Christ is my personal Lord and savior’ card and tell them what’s what. As a Former Baptist, I was equipped and trained in that language. So I can talk the talk. However, I really don’t understand the language of those who see Christian nationalists around every corner and seek to minimize their influence- when the numbers of those actually wanting that are really super low and have always been a minority in the greater Christian world. The Left hears ‘I want to speak about my faith and values and have it be considered a legit point of view’ as ‘these wackos are the equivalent of the Taliban and they must be stopped at all costs’ and there’s no consideration that there’s a lot of middle ground in that conversation.
For a lot of people, it’s really just about wanting to be respected for who they are and not feel like they have to censor every thought they have in their brain just because they don’t support the current thing.
Christian nationalism seems to be another word for boogeyman and way of othering people who disagree with all the increased secularism in our society. Secularism isn’t all it’s made out to be either and we need to have honest conversations about that.
If I were on any social media I would share this far and wide. But alas, I am not. So know that this post being read widely is the desire of my heart! Wonderful work Shawn.
One thing that really resonates with me in your article is that isn’t it interesting that in the country that has for the most part embraced separation of church and state, Christian is the most common religious affiliation.
Thanks for this article Shawn. In so many ways I agree wholeheartedly with what you wrote.
Regarding "the weight of history" being on the side of those who want to enforce some sort of religious observance in the public sphere, if we go back a few hundred years from Augustine and the church fathers we find Jesus' own statement "give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's", an apparent statement about the separation of church and state, which seems to trump any other statement made by any other Christian theologian (Jesus being far more authorative than any and all Christians).
The idea of setting up a recognised religion in the public sphere also seems the opposite of the church of the Apostolic era, when the church ultimately thrived inspite of (or may because of?) persecution by the state.